This is one is about gay men and sex.
Family members and Spo-fans who are squeamish may want to come back some other day.
“Gay marriage” has certainly raised a lot of ruckus. Many of my friends and patients have become married in the past few years*. It’s intriguing to see how these nuptials imitate (or not) traditional heterosexual marriages. While gays/lesbians want the legal and economic equalities given to straight married couples, I don’t see much desire to become ‘true onto death’ viz. monogamy. Monogamy doesn’t seem to be too important in gay couples, even after they formalize their relationships.
I know a lot of gay couples, personally and professionally, and I estimate most of them have sexual liaisons outside of their relationship. I recently found a statistic to support the hypothesis. This week in one of my shrink-journals a therapist reported in his research paper ~ 2 of 3 gay male couples have sex outside of their relationship. I suspect this is under reported.
The term for it is “polyamory”, which is a fancy word to describe an open relationship.
Is it possible to be ‘true’ to your spouse but have sex elsewhere? Apparently yes, given the statistic just quoted.
“Emotionally monogamous; sexually polyamorous” is another intriguing term in the mentioned paper. Polyamory is an extremely rare situation in my straight friends/patients**.
Either the gay guys have successfully separated themselves from traditional heterosexual relationship standards, or they are fooling themselves. Perhaps things aren’t so jolly as they state it is. In their defense, in my own ‘research’, the gay couples I know fall into the former category; they are doing OK with polyamory. Indeed, there seems to be a correlation between the surety of the love-bond and the ease for either or both parties play elsewhere. Fascinating.
Perhaps the explanation is more prosaic: men like to have sex. Therefore, gay men are more willing to allow ‘extramarital affairs’ as they understand the need – or want it too.
The straight man’s criticism of gay men’s satyriasis may be merely sour grapes and envy.
It’s all rather complex and somewhat ineffable. That pretty well sums up human sexuality.
*Alas, if they live here, they have to go elsewhere to tie the knot, as AZ remains nasty on this subject of gay marriage. Indeed, by the end of the week the AZ governor will sign an even more acrimonious bill against gays, as most of you know.
** The exception is the French. A Frenchman traditionally has a wife and a mistress. However if monsieur should happen onto a third woman he is likely to find himself with two bread knives in his back. The rules are different; breaking the rules is the same.
Spo-Reflections 
44 comments
February 23, 2014 at 3:00 PM
justajeepguy
I have started to think that hetero marriages are headed to more openness. The change in life span, the role of women, the needs of the children all contribute. If you look at the long history of marriage, it is only recently that people married for love only.
February 23, 2014 at 3:04 PM
anne marie in philly
I agree with jeepy; str8 marriage should be open. I read somewhere that the human, like his animal ancestors, was never meant to settle down with one person for life.
February 23, 2014 at 4:55 PM
Shawn
Hey Girl! I come to your blog, but it will not let me post comments anymore. Love you!
February 23, 2014 at 9:25 PM
anne marie in philly
damn; I will look into this!
February 24, 2014 at 8:02 AM
justajeepguy
Anne Marie – check your spam folder under comments on your design page.
February 23, 2014 at 3:42 PM
Laurent
As for straight couples I think it is cultural, Italians very often will have a mistress and a wife, it’s a cultural thing. No one makes a fuss because there are many ties, family, real estate, money, children etc. It’s the adult approach to life. So different from our childish North American way of seeing things in absolutes.
February 23, 2014 at 3:45 PM
usstorageunit
>
February 23, 2014 at 4:53 PM
Shawn
As a man married legally to my male husband, yes in one of the legal states, I am one of the 2 of 3 relationships which allows for a sexual partner outside of the marriage. In my experience with my male/ male partnered friends I would say that 9 of 10 gay relationships allows this polyamorous relationship status. No I don’t got slutting around all the time but will choose one or two on occasion to spend time with and almost always someone that I know well, or spend time getting to know well over a long period. I need trust and affection for sex to work for me in a fulfilling way. Otherwise I happier with my good friend Rosie. If you don’t know who Rosie is, you probably should not be reading this post.
February 23, 2014 at 8:20 PM
Urspo
Interesting! I hear one end or the other: couples are OK with an open relationship either with anonymous/faceless encounters OR with only people they really know.
February 23, 2014 at 5:19 PM
Barb
Sadly the “til death” doesn’t resonate much in the heteros either. It seems to be a hedonistic view of “till it’s not working for me”. I wonder is the rate of sexual exploits isn’t the same among hetero males too…biology rules
February 23, 2014 at 8:18 PM
Urspo
it is rather complicated, aint’ it?
February 23, 2014 at 5:31 PM
Ron
Dr. Spo,
You know me, “polamory.” Fifty years (this July) when Bill asked me to move in with him I told him I couldn’t because I was still going to be “going out.” He said he understood and our relationship was not to be defined by the traditional Puritan based monogamous relationship. While monogamy works well for many couples, both gay and straight, that would never work for us. Not that we’re sluts (we’re not) but I always wanted that option if I met someone else, which I have several times and, as you know, just this year I met a very special man who is my ideal and makes me extremely happy both emotionally and sexually. It took me 72 years but I finally met the Perfect Man. What I find interesting and fascinating is the number of gay people I know who get quite upset about OUR relationship. I remember one of my peers who, whenever he saw me in a bar on a Saturday night, would confront me and angrily say “What are you doing here?! You have a lover (the old term for spouse) back home!” He was always quite angry when he saw me in the bar. I don’t know, maybe he didn’t like the competition. Unfortunately he is dead now but I’m sure he would be turning over in his grave if he knew that I was continuing not playing by HIS rules.
I think each couple decides what works for them. Ironically, in my current relationship I made it clear that we are to be monogamous with each other. No fooling around outside the relationship. Of course it helps that I have no other interest other than him (and he has no other interest than me, he says). I guess that sounds contradictory and hypocritical. Oh well, maybe there’s a name for that too. All I know is this works for me and the two men I am involved with. Again, each relationship is unique to be decided upon by the participants.
Ron
February 23, 2014 at 8:17 PM
Urspo
Which supports my wonder: gay men are nevertheless products of straight society, which values monogamy and frowns upon ‘straying’. I hear a lot of criticism of gays on other gays about their ‘lack of constancy’.
February 24, 2014 at 8:51 AM
Massage Jeffrey
I’m with Ron on this one. Other people can have their relationship rules; we have ours. They work for us, and I’m glad that the rules of others work for them. No one has a shred of authority to comment on the way we run our relationship and marriage, which is exclusively between the two of us.
February 25, 2014 at 4:28 PM
Ron
Thank you Jeffrey. Very few people see things my way, I’m glad you do. However, the only person who does matter is my partner/spouse. We set our own rules, I do not set rules for others even though others are all to ready to impose their rules on us which I have always found interesting. It’s like they’re being challenged which I am not. This is what works for us. Has for the past fifty years and still going strong. No one is swinging from the chandeliers but both of us have the option of other relationships and have (and continue – I’m in another as I speak now) do so. It is our life lived by our definitions, not some mad made Bible definitions or a Puritan heritage. All I know is we’ve had a very happy life together these past fifty years. I can’t say the same for many of my peers who stuck by “the rules.”
February 23, 2014 at 5:38 PM
Sean
Interesting…I have always considered polyamory and non-monogamy to be different things (of which I am both.) Non-monogamous, in my understanding, means to not be sexually exclusive with one partner. Polyamory, in my understanding, means to be non romantically-exclusive with your partner. Most gay couples and men I know are or wish to be non-monogamous. (Or are non-monogamous “on the sly.”) I know of only one triad and maybe 2 monogampus couples (so far as I know.)The men I know, at most, claim they only want sexual freedom, but desire emotional/romantic exclusivity. I did not discovered my non-monogamous nature until I was with a partner that was open to disussing and exploring it. We were married for 9 years before it even came up. We realized (and agreed) that we need only make our own rules and be concerned with one another’s feelings and comfort with it, the rest of the world be damned. 15+ years married and we are as happy, content and comfortable as ever, and we have no desire to inhibit or control one anothers’ sexual desires or activities. It just has no bearing on our contentment and compatibility as a couple. The bigger surprise, and adjustment, was when one of my “friend with benefits” grew into something more. There were lots of discussions and treading lightly, but, I am now 2 years into a pseudo-triad relationsip. My boyfriend does not share a romantic or sexual relationship with my husband, but they are friends and it is still a 3-way relationship, of sorts. Our life, our relationship(s), our sexual activities, our emotional attachments are ours to decide, discover, discern and determine. We may not be traditional, but we are happy. Some people are happy, or only capable of, committing to one partner emotionally and sexually. Some are not. We should try to understand that what works and is “right” for one is not necessarily “right” for others. Gay, straight, bi, monogamous, non-monoagmous, asexual, polyamorous, pansexual…we all need to discover and embrace and love who we are, without apolgy or hesitation, be honest about our wants and needs and natures with our prospective partners, and build our relationships, whatever they entail, with compassion, love, understanding, trust, honesty and compersion. I love my husband. I love my boyfriend. I love my friends. To what degree, and what that entails, is for me to discover with those whom I build relationships.
February 23, 2014 at 6:57 PM
Ron
Well said Sean. I could not have said it better. Especially this part: “We should try to understand that what works and is “right” for one is not necessarily “right” for others.” We make our own rules and be damn what others think. Each relationship is unique as is each person. There is no “one size fits all.” Whatever works for you and as a couple, that’s what life is about. Trying to live by someone else’s arbitrary rules or societal dictated rules, especially our stifling Puritan heritage, just does not work, for me anyway.
February 23, 2014 at 5:41 PM
JimA
I associate with many people outside of the norms. There are many more open straight marriages (or as they’re called ‘the lifestyle’ of being swingers). As far as I have observed, this becomes OK with each person only after the love and trust of years together.
I find many gay men who want the open relationship right away, without the years together building that love and trust. Which means… that one party is always ‘just going along with it’ to make their partner happy, but really would rather not know. Or it (sleeping around) is done behind the back of the other partner.
But…. I do think monogamy in possible with a same sex partner! And I’m fine with being single until that guy comes along that wants it too.
February 23, 2014 at 6:20 PM
justajeepguy
I read this comment on Stephen’s blog, Post Apocalyptic Bohemian, but I’m not on FB and thought you’d be interested in checking it out. I’d appreciate it. I miss him.
Chellis610January 11, 2014 at 3:29 PM
OK- here’s the story- I checked out his Facebook page, and he has been fighting non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma (cancer). He’s having chemo and has been doing his blog entries on Facebook. BTW, The Husband is still around!
https://www.facebook.com/stephen.rutledge.54
February 23, 2014 at 8:14 PM
Urspo
I miss him too. Someone follows him on FB already.
February 23, 2014 at 7:58 PM
Sluggy
I would be interested to see what sort of statistics are found among the subset of gay marriages where the couple are parenting children. Does this group still bare out the polyamorous numbers of same sex marriages? And what are the figures for lesbian couples only as a group toward polyamory and the subset of lesbian couples raising children and engaging in polyamory.
February 23, 2014 at 8:13 PM
Urspo
Very good questions, for which I don’t have any data. Lesbian couples are allegedly far more monogamous, reflecting the cliche females are less likely to go a-roving. I too wonder if gay couples with children are more likely to be monogamous. I don’t know.
February 23, 2014 at 9:18 PM
David Jeffreys
Monogamy (and polygamy) are constructs by humans usually based on their man-made religions. A few animals for whatever reasons do seem to have only one partner for life, but I don’t necessarily think that is the case with homo sapiens. I’m also not sure that gay men are necessarily more polyamorous than straight men, but perhaps straight men hide it better since society’s current mores demand it.
In my opinion, I could have a monogamous relationship based on trust and true love (such as finding one’s soul mate) and even more so, if that feeling were mutual. I think that can really happen between individuals whether they are heterosexual or homosexual.
Marriage is another religious construct, but because it now matters legally, financially, and politically, marriage has become more desirable among gays who wish to be treated equally with their straight counterparts, but not necessarily because of “love.”
February 23, 2014 at 11:09 PM
Raybeard
I agree absolutely with this. Surely, when it comes down to it, monogamy, though it might be deemed “better” or “superior” by certain individuals or organisations (religious or otherwise), and “more desirable for society”, is essentially an UNnatural state.
February 24, 2014 at 3:09 AM
Anita Wagner Illig
How awesome to see this conversation happening here, in the open (so to speak.). Not very long ago it could have been used by those opposing same sex marriage as validation of Stanley Kurtz’s slippery slope argument. Until very recently the leaders of the same sax marriage movement responded to the claim that legalizing same sex marriage would set a precedent that would logically have to let in polyamorous marriage by consistently denying that there were or would ever be significant enough numbers of polyamorists to make any difference or warrant polyamorous marriage.
All the while, significant numbers of GLBTs have been creating and succeeding at multipartner sexual, loving relationships. Add to that group the long-existing numbers of non-GLBTs who are polyamorous AND the significantly increasing entry of previously (and ostensibly) monogamous, mainstream, heterosexual couples, and we are seeing a groundswell support for long term, committed, fulfilling polyamorous relationships.
By the way, in the polyamory community, which exists not just all over the US but in countries around the world, polyamory is defined as romantic, committed long-term relationships with the knowledge and consent of all concerned. The term “open relationships” is an umbrella term that encompasses polyamorists AND those who openly and honestly enjoy no strings attached sex with others with whom they are not involved romantically. And then there open polyamorists who are in committed multi-partner relationships who also hook up with others occasionally.
It is well known that the gay male populace pretty much wrote the book on open sex and relating. I regret that it was necessary to throw all we polyamorists under the same sex marriage bus. Whether it was and may still be necessary is debatable. Regardless, media interest in polyamory has skyrocketed and shows no sign of letting up, thus taking polyamory main stream, something I came to polyamory hoping for and working toward for almost 20 years. If we add the fast growing het, bi and trans poly population and the long-existing gay polyamorists, we have very many people for whom coming out as poly holds a lot of benefits. That said, today there is very little interest in government sanctioned multipartner marriage. As our numbers grow over time, that may well change. Western culture is undergoing a shift that acknowledges and validates traditional marriage, while other forms of sexual and romantic relationships are also more and more often being seen and acknowledged as equally valid, largely by mainstream media. It is indeed an exciting time in which relationships and families of all sorts will flourish side by side, thus establishing an unprecedented kind of sexual relationship freedom.
To see the ever growing numbers of poly groups where poly people gather, socialize, etc. , check Alan’s list of poly groups at http://polyevents.blogspot.com/#localgroups
You can also see Alan’s extensive compilation of hundreds of poly media events on the Polyamory in the News blog (including some that are GBLT focused), at http://polyinthemedia.blogspot.com
February 24, 2014 at 4:55 AM
RuralBeard
I suspect there’s two things going on here which we, as gay men, understand from our experience and lifestyle. Sex does not equal love and for as long as the heart is intact, dalliances do not affect ones commitment to being with the number one heart-mate. In fact, I’d go one step beyond that and postulate that there are circumstances where one might have two (or more, I can’t speak for that) love-interests within the overall family unit, two men that function together to create a wonder trilogy of heart and body.
February 24, 2014 at 5:53 AM
Anita Wagner Illig
You are right, I have met in person and online several gay male triads, i.e. committed long-term relationships in groups of three. Triads can be tricky, but when they are good, they provide an abundance of love, sex, companionship, and financial resources, assuming all three live together and make a financial contribution to the family coffers, unlike most people experience in their monogamous relationships. This is not to say that on the whole poly relationships are better than monogamous relationships, both are valid choices.
February 24, 2014 at 8:43 AM
Massage Jeffrey
Exactly.
February 24, 2014 at 5:26 AM
DG
I see a spectrum here, from the very conservative, don’t even look or think about another person to have sex with who ever you want but come home to me. It seems that at least once a year Dear Abbey or Miss Manners is advising some distraught spouse on how to not over react to their partner looking at another person or looking at porn. It is one thing to be limited in action and another to be limited in what you can see or think.
We have been a couple for almost 21 years. I think we are physically monogamous, but porn and “self love” are open. In past relationships there was incredible jealousy from even looking at or thinking about another person and porn was seen as the slippery slope. So we have progressed. I think I would be surprised and disappointed if I found that J was having sex with someone else. I have said, “thanks for the complement – but no thanks I have someone special in my life” a few times over the past two decades.
February 24, 2014 at 6:26 AM
Urspo
I want to hear more about gay male couples in monogamous relationships. Apparently they are the ‘exception’; what makes them so? How do they compare to their counterparts who are ‘open’? Is it merely a choice to be one way or another, or is there something inherently different between them.
February 24, 2014 at 8:27 AM
@MikeInLas
Rob and I are in our 16th year together and each and every day has been spent in monogamy. We love and trust one another and have been through the ups and downs of life. I’m not sure if both of us having been closeted gay men, married to women, makes any difference in wanting to be monogamous, but for us, being loving and faithful has been a hallmark of our relationship. Yes, we each sneak a peek of other guys we find attractive – even share that occasionally with the other, and we both masturbate freely (privately) and with no guilt – but at the end of the day “it’s not where you get your appetite, but where you eat your dinner.”
February 24, 2014 at 8:41 AM
Massage Jeffrey
I have not the least trouble with my husband having sex with other people, especially friends I know and love. Anonymous sex? No. I know that he loves me, and I also know that he is not going to leave me, so this doesn’t bother me at all. It works for us just fine, and we share details, which makes it sexy-fun! I’ve always wanted to be in a multiple marriage, myself from the time I was a little boy – had this idea of a whole bunch of guys all living together in a house with each other. So, I’ve been fine with it for decades. Besides, a person’s gonna do what a person’s gonna do anyway, so why should I get all bent out of shape about it? I choose not to, and choose to embrace it.
February 24, 2014 at 8:56 AM
Massage Jeffrey
And, we have straight married friends who are in the couples swingers community. They met at swingers events, and even now that they’re married, wouldn’t have it any other way. It works great for them.
I wouldn’t even DREAM of commenting or kibitzing them on the way that they run their relationship. By the same token, no one gets to comment on mine, either.
Plural marriage is Biblical, after all, and has a history of thousands and thousands of years. I really don’t know what people are getting upset about.
February 24, 2014 at 9:40 AM
jefferyrn
I must be a lesbian based on these comments.
February 24, 2014 at 10:52 PM
David Jeffreys
To what extent, if any, has HIV impacted relationships and monogamy. Have couples become more monogamous for fear of STDs, especially with anonymous sex, but even with polyamory?
February 25, 2014 at 4:46 AM
Urspo
Not that I can tell
Sent from nowhere in particular.
>
February 25, 2014 at 1:29 PM
domanidave
Once upon a time, in what was immediately discernible as laying the groundwork for proposing a three-way, our good friend Greg asked us coyly, “Is your relationship ‘modern’?” All these years later, upon meeting an interesting gentleman, one of us can nearly always be counted on to subsequently whisper, “Do you think he’s ‘modern’?”
So, did I already ask? Are you ‘modern’?;-)
February 26, 2014 at 1:07 AM
Nik the Greek
I’m reading this conversation on the go and will be back to read it more thoroughly.
I’m in the minority here. I’m in a monogamous relationship and I love it. I believe I can get everything I need from it. I saw in some comments that I’ve been advised of being a Puritan. I don’t see it that way. For me the safety of my relationship is more important than a short encounter with someone for sex.
February 26, 2014 at 7:06 AM
Dave
Frankly, I’m afraid as you go back to read this conversation more thoroughly, though I would not want to suggest that it is in any way mean-spirited, you will find a bit of an implied belittlement of monogamy. Take heart.
February 26, 2014 at 8:02 AM
Massage Jeffrey
I do not belittle monogamy, nor do I think there is inherent merit in being monogamous or non-monogamous. Monogamy works for many people just fine. Non-monogamy also works just fine for many people. They both also *don’t* work for some people. To each his own!
February 26, 2014 at 8:35 AM
domanidave
I don’t feel there was any singling-out, implied or otherwise, in my comment, but if you felt spotlighted, it was unintentional.
March 2, 2014 at 8:48 AM
Massage Jeffrey
Interesting TED talk about just this subject:
http://new.ted.com/talks/christopher_ryan_are_we_designed_to_be_sexual_omnivores
May 11, 2014 at 2:48 PM
Kelly Paul
Do you need a gay partner, someone who will satisfy you very well, then contact me via my e-mail address: kellypaul277@gmail.com or via my BBM pin:29015507.
May 23, 2015 at 4:08 AM
Kato
http://m.smh.com.au/world/ireland-backs-gay-marriage-in-poll-ministers-and-opponents-say-20150523-gh87v8.html
How Irish gay marriage is being portrayed in the Sydney Morning Herald.